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MY opinion on the NOB match has changed

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This entry was posted on 3/7/2008 8:41 PM and is filed under uncategorized.

OK, yesterday I wrote about how I was impressed with a draw against Newell's Old Boys.  I take that some of that back.  In light of RSLFM's latest, I am upset about the match yesterday.  I am upset that Garth especially would do all he could to make it seem like RSL played NOB's first team.  I know this is really a meaningless training match, but still, why not say that we played the reserves?  I mean a draw with a team like Newell's Old Boys reserves is still pretty impressive.  This just to me seems unethical.  I am really not happy about how RSL seems to not care much for ethics. 

I will just say I am deeply disappointed in the management of the team in how they are so willing to tell half-truths and untruths just to gain a temporary advantage.  If this wasn't a long-term trend, I would not be that upset, but this seems to be par for the course.  I am sick of being told one thing, only to find out later that really things are not going to turn out as advertised.  For example, the supporter's section.  RCB was told we would be in a similar section to where we are in RES last year at the end of the season; but, we now find out, we will be relegated to behind the goal.  I would not have had a problem if last year they told us we would probably be behind the goal in the new stadium, but being told that after being told something else really upsets me.  It's like they don't understand that when people find out reality is different from the rhetoric that people will be upset.  I just don't understand why they can't just say up front what is going to REALLY happen instead of painting a beautiful picture only to have it turn out way different.

Again, it comes to ethics.  Ethics (as defined as millenia of social conditioning) are the basis of all law (not the Bible as too many people in this country claim, the Founding Fathers generally didn't consider themselves Christian, but did support the ideals of the Enlightenment, which was a review of ethics).  I just don't see why it seems that RSL just can't tell things as they are.  The stadium is a prime example.  I have mostly refrained from talking about the stadium, but looking at the bill passed and reviewing the debate from the legislature from last year, RSL wasn't very upfront in the details.  While I do support the stadium, I don't like how it came about.  I also don't like how our politicians in this state do not seem to "get it" when it comes to economic development and the realities of issues like taxation; so I guess it makes sense why RSL wasn't totally up front, had they been, there would not have been a deal.  I get really sick of the seemingly prevailing view in this state that tax funds can only be spent on schools and roads. 

That's another thing, I really get sick of hearing the constant whine from the UEA about how bad teachers have it in Utah.  First,  if Utah was truly serious about funding our schools, we would have a stupidity tax (a lottery).  It's niave to not look at Idaho and see how stores in Franklin and Malad, just across the border, sell more lottery tickets than any other stores in Idaho.  I really don't think that Franklin with a population of 641 (in the 2000 census) has everyone in town buying that many lottery tickets.  So why is Utah funding Idaho schools when people here go and buy lottery tickets in Idaho?  Second, I really don't think that making $30,000 a year plus benefits (which for teachers are excellent) for what amounts to a part-time job is that unreasonable, especially given the cost of living in Utah.  Why is it that there isn't a single school in the state contemplating cutting the football or basketball teams, but plenty thinking about cutting the marching band?  Why are our priorities so screwed up?

Ok, not sure how my rant about RSL's lack of ethics seems to have wandered into schools, but it did and I'm too tired to change things.

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Comments

    • 3/7/2008 9:59 PM Heavy D wrote:
      You make some valid arguments, but you go on too long about it, but I am a whining like a little bitch.

      Reply to this
    • 3/7/2008 10:39 PM Soccerman wrote:
      Schools have to cut marching band before football. Duh! Can you imagine a marching band that performs only in a parade once or twice a year? Personally I'd rather have an orchestra program where the music is the message than a marching band where it's as much about silly costumes and marching formations.

      Seriously though, I agree with you, I think the RSL FO has become much more transparent in the past couple of months, but they still have a long way to go to deserve the credibility that they've lost time and time again. It's one thing to withhold information from politicos, it's another to withhold otherwise nominal information from your fans.
      Reply to this
      1. 3/8/2008 12:59 AM RCB Donk wrote:
        Honestly I only used the marching band analogy because I was talking about the football team. 

        Otherwise, that is exactly the point I was trying to make, it's one thing to withhold information from politicians, it's another to withhold simple things from those who pay your bills.

        Reply to this
    • 3/8/2008 7:16 AM teacherman wrote:
      Any comment you make about ethics and the value of the enlightenment goes out the window when you claim that teachers are only part time workers and that $30,000 a year is sufficient for their contribution to society.
      Reply to this
      1. 3/8/2008 9:06 AM RCB Donk wrote:
        In an ideal world, we wouldn't have lawyers either.  But how many hours and days do teachers really work?  Sorry, but you're talking to someone who works at least 50 hours a week, usually 6 days a week.  Sorry, but teachers here get little sympathy when they whine about money, because they do it so often.  The UEA/NEA would whine about money even if teachers made twice what they do.  And yes, 155 days out a the year, 7:30 to 3:00, 5 days a week, with every holiday possible off, that is part time.  Sorry, but it is.  In reality, the problem isn't the teachers as the union bosses and school administration.  It is insane that in Weber County, Weber and Fremont High Schools are overcrowded, but Roy and Bonneville are empty.  Add tot he fact that kids in Huntsville are bussed past Ben Lomond because it's a different school district and you see the waste.  Add that to how poorly most of the district level offices are run, how inefficient and you start to really see the problems.  Also, while many teachers care and do a great job, too many don't.  Half my teachers in high school would pass out some busywork worksheet thing at the beginning of class, not even really teach a lesson, and just make sure the class was quiet for an hour.  So while many teachers do earn what they make and do a great job, there are still far too many that are just dead weight in the system and there is little accountability for performance.  That's fixable, if someone is willing to go to battle against the unions, but right now the unions stick up for the dead weight and in my opinion go a long way to creating that dead weight. 

        As a teacher, can you honestly say that all your colleagues earn the money they make?  And be honest, because while not everyone can handle doing what teachers do, not everyone can handle doing a manual labor job either, so that is not a valid response; if you can't handle the job, maybe you need another line of work.

        Reply to this
        1. 3/8/2008 11:04 AM teacherman wrote:
          An accounting of a teacher's working hours based on the numbers you give is grossly oversimplified and undersestimatd. However, I will grant you that teachers spend less "time on the job" than many other professions but it is not as significant as many assume. If a person's value to society is based solely on the time the put in and not the value or importance of the work they do they we have many changes to make. The reason half your teachers in high school didn't teach you is because they were crap teachers. Everyone kees saying our education is aweful so why should we pay teachers more. If teachers recieved higher salaries then it wouldn't take long before you had a new set of teachers. To get back to RSL (at least a little bit), the competitive environment that is talked about with hopes for encouraging better results does not exist in education because there are more jobs than teachers. Why? Many of the people with the potential to be the best teachers also have what it takes to to pursue careers where they are compensated much better. You are not alone in your point of view but I couldn't let your statements pass at the same time you harped the words of the enlightenment and ethics which would both question why our society's financial rewards for various professions are so lopsided.

          As a teacher, I can honestly say that my colleagues' work is more valuable than what their paychecks express. Some teachers (not my personal colleagues) don't deserve the money they make and shouldn't be teaching but at $30,000 a year to start who is going to go to college and get certified to replace them? The same problem exists with manual labor. We pay too little. The jobs then increasingly go to illegal immigrants and then we complain about the problems of illegal immigration. WE created the problem, allowed it to happen for years, and now are crying foul all because we have failed to value (with the buck) those people that are the foundation of our society.
          Reply to this
          1. 3/8/2008 3:44 PM RCB Donk wrote:
            I actually agree with this, but didn't want to get into a restructuring of our socioeconomic reality.  Unfortunately, while this sentiment I find to be true, that we do undervalue essential professions while we overvalue others, I don't think that is something that we in this country would be willing to change.  I think that is to our detriment, but to restructure our society to that point just is not going to happen.  But since I believe more in dealing with things as they are and not as how they should be, there needs to be serious reform in education.  I really think there needs to be a merit based pay scale.  I know people hate standardized testing and I know the arguments against those types of tests, but the reality is, that's the system we have and while not everyone succeeds, that's really not what we're looking for anyway.  I think that there needs to be a set performance matrix to determine who are the good teachers and who are not. 

            On a personal note, the money issue is the main reason why I am not interested in teaching high school and why I want to get a PhD.  I do think we need to increase pay, we can fund it with a lottery, and we need to match our neighboring states, because talent goes where the money is.  I am also in favor of usable vocational training at the high school level, which we are just starting to see with the applied technology colleges.  Not everyone is made for the university track, and they should not be condemned to a life of barely over minimum wage jobs because they are not ones to fit that mold.  I think the German system of different school tracks, based on performance is a better method.  Those who qualify for the university track gymnasium go there, but those who qualify for the vocational track Realschule can get a good middle class job with that education.  We are finally moving in this direction and that is encouraging.  I also think it's very telling in Utah that we have really just one community college.  We have some of the best universities in the country, but again, not everyone is suited to the traditional university path.  We don't have a lot, as yet, to fill that middle need, not a university education, but something more than just high school. 

            Again, more than anything, I really want to clear out the dead weight in the school systems so that those who truly are deserving and do their jobs with a passion that should be rewarded are.  That's really the direction we need to go.  And we can do that largely by getting rid of the waste in the system now.  For example, much as I love sports and played them in high school, sports should not be in the schools.  Especially at the expense of other academic programs.  This goes for the universities as well.  It pisses me off that over have of my required student fees at Weber State University go to the athletic department.  For me, I spend over $300 per year out of my required student fees of $600 to support a football, basketball and all the other sports teams that I really don't care about and contribute little to the academic mission of the university.  And the argument that the sports teams bring in donors doesn't hold water because there are universities that do not have sports teams that still do well with donations.  MIT comes to mind.

            Yes I made a fairly simple argument in my original post, but it was a small blog post, not a detailed study into the whole issue of education.

            Reply to this
    • 3/8/2008 9:00 AM Timoteo wrote:
      As I was the one that blogged the truth that this match was against the reserves and not against the first team, I agree with your first part about RSL being upfront. The rest of your rant has no place in a soccer blog and is pure stupidity.

      Reply to this
      1. 3/8/2008 9:09 AM RCB Donk wrote:
        Thanks for breaking the news.  As for the rest, the title isn't Donk's Soccer Blog, it's Donk's blog.  I can write what I want.  If you don't like it, pay for the bandwidth and dns registration and you can tell me what to write.  I happen to like things other than soccer and politics is one of those.  Read through some other posts and you will see that.

        Reply to this
    • 3/8/2008 11:58 AM pb & j wrote:
      Can you tell me that you have never complained about not being paid as much as you thought you should? Part of the reason for the lack of quality teachers is the lack of quality pay. Besides, teachers and education provide a means for people not to have to work '50 hours a week of manual labor'.
      Reply to this
      1. 3/8/2008 3:49 PM RCB Donk wrote:
        I have no problem paying teachers more, provided they have to meet performance criteria to get those raises.  Just like any other job.

        Reply to this
    • 3/8/2008 1:37 PM eponymous wrote:
      CEO's get paid a lot for their jobs, not proportional to their hours worked. The thing is that the job is important. Teacher's jobs are important too, they are literally shaping the future of the nation. SO pay them money. The more they get paid the more competition for the jobs, the better candidates you get. Pay teachers more I say.
      Reply to this
    • 3/8/2008 1:44 PM Dredd wrote:
      Donk,
      You bring up some good points..but seriously son. To infer that school teachers only work 7:30-3..WOW! I know many school teachers and they log way more hours than 7:30-3. You forget all the hours they have to work at home; and plus they have to deal with parents. Many of those parents just like yourself infer that these teachers don't work hard and view them as babysitters for their "perfect" children. By saying teachers only work 7:30-3 155 days a year..kind of makes ya look like the RSLFO saying: RSL played the NOB 1st team.

      Keep being the RSL Malcontent and see you at the first match.
      Reply to this
    • 3/8/2008 2:53 PM sidelineviewscom wrote:
      A few points. I don't like the RSL lack of ethics either. I know some media people that handle a lot of the set up and video relay for the games. They are owed a lot of money by Checketts. They all think he is a crook. I don't like RSL's sales tactic's. So I agree with you there.

      However you make some other very wandering points. I mean, come on, arguing whether the constitution was founded on the bible? What the philosophical views of the founding fathers are? What Utah school teachers are paid? How little they work? What is the point.

      The crowning statement was "so I guess it makes sense why RSL wasn't totally up front, had they been, there would not have been a deal. I get really sick of the seemingly prevailing view in this state that tax funds can only be spent on schools and roads." When talking about a team having a lack of ethics I would probably not recommend saying it is ok to be mis-representative to the state.
      Reply to this
      1. 3/8/2008 3:57 PM RCB Donk wrote:
        Had they been up front with the county, I doubt they would have had to deal with the state.  Had they been open through the whole process, I think there would not have been the mess.  Also, a lot of the problems revolved around Dave Checketts' financial dealings, how many people who owes money and has not paid who made phone calls to people in authority.  That is the real problem I see with RSL, Dave Checketts was looking to build the value of the team, especially with a stadium and then sell it to someone else.  Basically he was looking to flip the team like people flip houses.  Given that view, a lot of the dealings in the management of the team make a lot of sense to me.  I could be wrong here, but that is the impression I get.  RSL was an investment to Dave Checketts and represented little else to him than that.  I'm not sure this has changed much or not.

        Reply to this
    • 3/10/2008 2:23 PM embratsu wrote:
      You kinda hit a nerve, not soccer related.

      Teaching != part time job. In fact, the teachers I know all work longer hours than I do. If you add up all the hours spent outside the classroom, teachers in this state make ~$3/hr. I know waitresses that make more than that. And these are the people we are relying on to educate the next generation of Americans!

      And on top of all that, teachers are the ones who have to put up with all the kids who's parents don't take the time to properly socialize them, teach them good personal, social and study habits and sometimes just plain ignore them.

      I love the stadium, but please don't suggest that it is anywhere near as important as paying quality teachers well.
      Reply to this
      1. 3/10/2008 9:10 PM RCB Donk wrote:
        I agree with paying QUALITY teachers well.  Teaching, like any other profession, should have pay based on merit. 

        As for making $3 per hour, as a soldier on a 6 month deployment to Bosnia, I made a salary of $1200 per month as an E-3.  Considering I was deployed and realistically working 24 hours a day since I was not able to go home and was always on call, I made about $1.65 per hour.  And I was a combat engineer clearing minefields.  At the same time, if I wanted to make more money, it was very obvious what needed to be done to make rank and get paid more.  Even for a teacher, there are ways to increase your pay, for example, get a Master's Degree.  I am against automatic pay increases, in every field.  That is what the UEA keeps asking for, they want the increases, but yet, fight attempts to bring accountability into the system.  Bad teachers should not get the same pay increase as good teachers. 

        Every job has challenges, no matter what the industry.  Dealing with customers who have no social skills, who are abusive and demanding, seems similar to dealing with unruly children.

        As for the stadium, I think more than anything, Dave Checketts' previous business dealings did more to poison the waters than anything else.  Dave owes a lot of people a lot of money and hasn't been very good at paying up.  But since he owns the team, and isn't going to sell until the value gets pumped up enough that he makes the profit he expects on the deal, the next best option was to play the good ole boys network of Utah politics, which is what happened.  Even then, how much more than the $35 million is this REALLY going to cost the state?  Again, transparency.

        Reply to this
    • 3/12/2008 8:23 PM Ben H wrote:
      I really get sick of hearing people say that we should have a lottery to pay for education...and it is so funny that you should mention this in a blog about RSL FO management and ethics.

      Here is your truth in advertising about a lottery...Pay your voluntary tax at your local convinience store and keep the reciept for a 1 in 10,000,000 chance at winning a big wad of cash...all for the local schools.

      Yea your school will get a real nice football stadium, and we will actually be able to clean the graffitti in the restroom. But you have the same crappy teachers, the same crappy test results...basically the same school just with teachers that make more money.

      I don't buy the bit about the lottery hurting mostly poor people. I have seen (when I lived outside of Utah) plenty of people who make good money blow hundreds on the lottery.
      Reply to this
      1. 3/12/2008 9:27 PM RCB Donk wrote:
        I agree about your what you say about the lottery, it only works with reform in the system.  There are great teachers out there, and they should get rewarded.  But make them accountable for doing their job and doing it well.

        Reply to this
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